Saturday, July 18, 2009

Laugh of the day

Last Sunday, in my "suggested reading" post, I listed an op-ed that Jimmy Carter wrote for the Guardian, called "The words of God do not justify cruelty to women." It's an excellent piece, and I've since promoted it all over the Internet, hoping to get as many people as possible to read it. (Seriously, if you haven't read it yet, go now.)

On the various sites where I shared the article, most comments were positive in nature, and nearly everyone that commented agreed with Carter. I did get one "norDoTheyJustifyAnti-semeticPnutFarmers" response on Twitter (ha)
, but this one today, from a message board, takes the cake so far:
Does the Southern Baptist Convention discriminate against women when it comes to being a pastor? Yes it does. Sorry that bothers some people, including Carter. It doesn't mean that women are not man's equal or somehow "lesser" then men.
LOL all day at that one! Gee, let's see. Men and women are equal, but they aren't. Oh, okay.

Just look at the Southern Baptist Convention's words on the subject:

From the Baptist Faith and Message, the doctrinal statement of the Southern Baptist Convention (as posted here; full list here):

Article 18, The Family
God has ordained the family as the foundational institution of human society. It is composed of persons related to one another by marriage, blood, or adoption.

Marriage is the uniting of one man and one woman in covenant commitment for a lifetime. It is God’s unique gift to reveal the union between Christ and His church and to provide for the man and the woman in marriage the framework for intimate companionship, the channel of sexual expression according to biblical standards, and the means for procreation of the human race.

The husband and wife are of equal worth before God, since both are created in God’s image. The marriage relationship models the way God relates to His people. A husband is to love his wife as Christ loved the church. He has the God-given responsibility to provide for, to protect, and to lead his family. A wife is to submit herself graciously to the servant leadership of her husband even as the church willingly submits to the headship of Christ. She, being in the image of God as is her husband and thus equal to him, has the God-given responsibility to respect her husband and to serve as his helper in managing the household and nurturing the next generation.

Children, from the moment of conception, are a blessing and heritage from the Lord. Parents are to demonstrate to their children God’s pattern for marriage. Parents are to teach their children spiritual and moral values and to lead them, through consistent lifestyle example and loving discipline, to make choices based on biblical truth. Children are to honor and obey their parents.

Article 6, The Church
A New Testament church of the Lord Jesus Christ is an autonomous local congregation of baptized believers, associated by covenant in the faith and fellowship of the gospel; observing the two ordinances of Christ, governed by His laws, exercising the gifts, rights, and privileges invested in them by His Word, and seeking to extend the gospel to the ends of the earth. Each congregation operates under the Lordship of Christ through democratic processes. In such a congregation each member is responsible and accountable to Christ as Lord. Its scriptural officers are pastors and deacons. While both men and women are gifted for service in the church, the office of pastor is limited to men as qualified by Scripture…..

Yeah, men and women, totally equal in the SBC. LMAO. Why anyone defends this crap is beyond me. (For the record, the guy I quoted above is not a Southern Baptist.

UPDATE: In addition to the follow-up quotes that I posted in the comments here, this one can't be ignored. It's from the same guy I quoted above:
But I fellowship with Christian men who attend all the different type of various churches. From Quaker to Baptist to Methodist, etc. And we discuss the word of God quite a bit in our free time (when we're not talking sports). And this very topic has been discussed ad nauseam, believe me. The majority would concur with the view I have expressed. But I have a couple friends who believe that the wife is to subject herself to the husband, meaning, the husband is the head of her. But they also practice the other aspects too, in loving their wives like Christ loved the church. So there is some balance there. They also don't believe that that means the wife is not equal or is somehow property; but only that the husband is the head of the household.

And even though I may respectfully disagree with them, it's not my place to lecture them or tell them they are wrong. We simply agree to disagree.

Fucking astonishing that people actually think this way.


Admin said...

puke. I got so stressed that I could barely read it.

Rosie said...

If that caused stress, check out the comments since posted by the same person and by one other person (I would link to the actual message board, but you have to be a member to read it.)

In response to me posting the SBC's doctrine articles:
"And you have a problem with this because? I can sure see all the cruelty in these statements. Wow!"

"Yeah, really. She is showing us church doctrine to try and somehow educate us on our own faith, as if we don't know, or are somehow unaware of what it says. Still waiting for someone to showing us the CRUELTY in the above."

In response to me saying I can't believe anyone defends the SBC's discrimination against women:
"It's an organization! I have numerous friends that are SBC and I have never heard one woman ever say this should be changed. If they don't care then why in the world do you care? Again where is the cruelty?"

And, best of all:
"Why do you care? Are you Christian? a member of a church? Or the SBC? Then quit worrying about it. Or choose a church that aligns itself towards your belief. They do exist. And its not defending the SBC so much. The SBC, as well as many other mainline denominations, simply are aligning their creed/doctrine with what is plainly spelled out and revealed in scripture that women cannot be pastors. If you have a problem with that, then take it up with the one who wrote the scriptures - God. Quit blaming the messengers."

Rosie said...

Again I should note, neither of these people are actually Southern Baptists.

Matt Osborne said...

As long as we're looking for disqualifiers from the clergy, what does the SBC say about eating shellfish? Or dermatology? I also seem to remember that only the men of one particular tribe were able to become priests...

Seriously, though, it's a zero-sum thing in their minds. Ordaining a woman means one less manly prerogative.

Rosie said...

Good point about the zero-sum. Also interesting that other Christian denominations allow women to be pastors/other church leaders. If it's so clear in the Bible that this is wrong, why would other denominations allow it?

Meghan said...

I refuse to ever believe God would discriminate against women. All we have to see is which sex was given the gift of carrying life, and it becomes obvious who God put HIS faith in.

Rosie said...

Meghan, I love your comment!

Matt Osborne, I'm not sure if you'll see this, but I can't find a way to contact you on your blog so I'm posting it here ... wanted to let you know that I can't leave comments on your blog because the field to enter the captcha word doesn't show. The word does, but there's nowhere to type it or hit enter. Not sure if other people are having this problem on your blog?


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